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[evandar]

My Painless'verse Thranduil got some serious hate from some reviewers. Which is, you know, fine. He appears harsh in Painless and...yeah, no. It's not fine. Not fine at all.

Hence the in your face explanation of his mental downspiral in King of Ashes. I will have my Thranduil vindicated. (I will not go off on a tangent that, had the prompt for child of Ruin and Hope specifically requested that he not die from the rape like Elves canonically would, then this whole thing would be a hell of a lot more tragic than it already is, and that Thranduil is amazingly strong in this 'verse for doing what he does, and that yes Legolas' childhood sucked, but so did the entirety of Thranduil's adult life and just stop hating him already, fandom, yeesh.)

And after this is done, I will go and write a fic which revels in my belief that actually - despite what fandom thinks - Thranduil is actually a good parent.

That is if I ever finish my Genderswap Big Bang fic. And university applications. And packing. And various other challenge fics as well as the eternal Harry Potter plot bunnies of death. And...this drink.

I hate Thranduil bashing. It'll be written. Cheers.

Comments

[lynndyre]

Did they really? That's annoying.

I love your Legolas and Thranduil both in this verse, and while I want Thranduil to be able to love Legolas freely (for both of them to be happier), I also want Legolas to be able to hug Thranduil for being so strong and having chosen to let both of them live.

I will read anything that shows Thranduil as a good parent, srsly.

[evandar]

It's been very much a case of 'How dare he not love Legolas! His poor baby's all over there crying and Thranduil's just being mean blah blah blah he's such a bastard'. *sighs* For the most part, the reviewers have been phenomenal, but on occasion...

I want them to reconcile as well, but before In the Garden was written, they weren't. I had a plan. It was going to happen. I was going to rip my own heart out and stamp on it and be like 'see what you made me do?!' because regardless of anything, Legolas is - and will always be - Thranduil's biggest trigger. Then I actually thought about it and calmed down and decided that, no, a happy ending had to apply in this case or I'd never be able to live with myself or show my face in fandom ever again. It was going to be that awful.

I've always felt Thranduil was a good parent. I hated the abused!Legolas trope in Lord of the Rings fandom back in the day, and I'm not overly fond of the fact that it's carried over into The Hobbit either. There isn't enough good parent!Thranduil fic out there, and damn it, if I have to write it myself... I've also been very tempted by this prompt and the potential for character building it holds. I'm less interested in what the Dwarves think (frankly, I think Thorin and his company have little to no sense between them and that Gandalf wanted Bilbo along as babysitter) than in Legolas' reaction.

[lynndyre]

I read the Hobbit book as a kid, before any of the others, and the Elvenking was just. A good guy, an impressive king who wanted to keep his people safe, but was willing to help others (and also kick ass and take names in the BoFA). Bilbo thought he was awesome, and I thought he was awesome too. I liked that Legolas was his son! So, yeah, when people started up with woobie!Legolas and his evil father, it really bugged me.

I'm very happy that you changed your mind and decided to give them a happy ending! ♥

That prompt looks awesome! I love, love, love the idea of Thranduil being linked to his forest, and how that could play out through magic. And yeah, definitely Legolas' reaction (because what child ever really understands who their parents were before they existed?). Bard's impressions would interest me as well, since he's both grounded and willing to see the elves as allies, but also impossibly other. (And I love Thranduil and Bard bonding as single fathers.)

Honestly I think Gandalf took a look at the first two ages of Middle Earth and was like 'you know what this place needs? Some common sense.' So ever since then it's his personal mission to stick a hobbit in every major quest/event he can find. XD I definitely agree that Bilbo's the voice of reason.

Gandalf goes back in time and hands a hobbit to the sons of Feanor, half the Silmarillion is then devoted to recipes instead of wars.

As an aside to that prompt, the forest river gave *good* dreams when Bombur fell in, so I wonder if it wouldn't be equally trippy for people to witness some of Thranduil's happy dreams as well as his nightmares?
(Oropher and Legolas together? Ow, I think I just angsted myself...)

[evandar]

Thranduil was my absolute favourite as a kid, and I loved the friendship that springs up between him and Bilbo by the end of the book. I really, really hope that PJ keeps that in the films, though I have my suspicions that he won't. I've always hated Thorin, and even though Richard Armitage is wonderful, I still can't stand the character. I kind of like what he did with Thranduil, but he's a little too...Jareth cold to everyone around him, instead of just to the Dwarves.

That is probably the best explanation for Gandalf throwing Hobbits into quests that I've seen. XD It's true, as well - the Hobbits are far more concerned with basic practicalities than the others seem to be.

I now really want crack!fic with Bilbo vs. Feanor & Sons.

The prompt fits really well with my Thranduil head-canon, actually, which is that Thranduil picked up a few tricks on kingdom protection from Queen Melian while he was living in Doriath. It would explain the river and the illusions... I was going to do fever-dreams, so more nightmarish than constant feasting, but having a few surreal moments would be good.

Oropher would just break me, especially Legolas' reaction. I kind of want to put Sauron in there as well, just to properly freak Gandalf out. Bard would probably take a lot of it in stride, especially with his viewpoint of Elves as 'friendly-other' but Thorin would definitely not be appreciative of hallucinated dragons.

[lynndyre]

I'm hoping for Bilbo/Thranduil friendship too. And Thranduil/Bard. I'm hoping that Lee Pace's comparison of Thranduil to the Fisher King does mean what people are theorizing, and that he'll switch over from wounded-animal-growling-at-the-world to true king in the third movie.(I will never believe Thranduil is racist against silvan elves, though, any more than I'll believe ELROND HALF ELVEN is racist against Men. Or that Faramir considered taking the ring for even a second.)

Peter Jackson does love adding unnecessary conflict, though, so idk. I was really sad we didn't get 'I do not grudge you the game, so glad am I to see you on your legs'.

I don't hate Thorin, but he isn't my favourite, and I always kind of felt like he got the ending he brought on himself in the book - but Fili and Kili didn't. Richard Armitage's Thorin is much more RECLAIMED HOMELAND! crossed with hereditary insanity, as opposed to just greedy, but he scares me a lot more than book Thorin did. I can see why people shipped Thilbo after the first movie, but I can't really see it ending well, even if he lived.

Belladonna Took's adventures consisted of time travel and helping Maglor learn how to take care of baby Elrond and Elros

What do you figure Legolas' reaction to Oropher would be? And ooh, yeah. Annatar-pretty-boy Sauron, or post-Numenor-noface Sauron? Or both? I love the idea that he learned things from Melian, even though he would have been really young then. I'm sort of inclined to think Thranduil's woodcraft magic is stronger than Oropher's was.

[evandar]

If it's not included, then I think I'll be utterly devastated by it. I always thought that being named 'Elvellon' by Thranduil was one of the most important things to happen to Bilbo on the quest. Bard/Thranduil friendship as well...*sighs* The politics surrounding the BoFA are so bloody interesting that removing them would essentially kill the film for me.

Also, yeah. What the hell was the Silvan-racism about? Doesn't Thranduil stay behind to take care of them? Why the hell would he do that for a people he looked down on? Don't even get me started on Elrond apparently hating Men because what the actual fuck was anyone thinking, putting that in there.

Kili and Fili's deaths seemed to be very much an afterthought in the book to me, and it's sad because they're the only ones who resist the gold sickness. They definitely didn't get what they deserved. Thorin, on the other hand, definitely did. You're right that he's a lot scarier in the films than in the book - he just seems unbalanced most of the time. The blind faith that a lot of the other Dwarves have in him (I loved Balin's "I'm worried for you" moment) despite his increasingly irrational decisions is frightening as well.

I still can't bring myself to like him. Not in the slightest. And Thilbo...I can't see it working out, not after he held Bilbo over a precipice and threatened to kill him, or held him at sword-point with an angry dragon after him. Bilbo entering or going back to a relationship like that would not be something I could ever get behind.

Stop it with the ideas for Feanorian crackfic because I really want to write them now. That said, Merry and Pippin trying to talk sense into Celebrimbor (and teaming up with Narvi to do it).

I think Legolas might not recognise him at first, depending on whether or not there were any pictures of Oropher around the palace. I think he'd then be a bit disturbed and worried for his father, and - if he resembles Oropher at all - I think he'd begin to understand just why Thranduil is so protective of him.

I have an idea for both versions of Sauron, actually - pretty-boy melting into no-face - and then setting the healing tent on illusion-fire while pretty much everyone freaks the fuck out in the background.

He would have been really young, but I just like the idea of Melian taking him on as an apprentice and teaching him woodland and water magic (and possibly a bit of healing as well), and then him using those skills to defend his kingdom. He is, after all, supposed to be the greatest of the woodland kings (according to the book).

[lynndyre]

Someone actually found the quote that refutes the silvan racism, let me see if I can find the post - here!

But yeah, idk. They pretty much have to include some of the BoFA politics, just in order for it to happen. And Bard and Thranduil and Bilbo being allied doesn't seem like something they can change? Probably won't be quite as friendly as in the book, but surely it has to at least happen.

Although -- in the books, Bilbo gives Thranduil a necklace, to make up for stealing food and drink while in Mirkwood. What if that means Bilbo's the one who gives Thranduil the chest of gems he's been after, in movieverse?

Oh man, now I really want to see that! Anything to disrupt my headcanon that the reason Celebrimbor gave over to Annatar's ring-making enticements was that it was following Narvi's death...

The visions of Sauron sound awesome. And like a very good way to freak the hell out of everyone there. XD And Thranduil's status as 'greatest of the woodland kings' is one of those bits of canon I want to make everyone acknowledge. I hope you do write this, it sounds so good!

[evandar]

Yep, that's the bit that Jackson skipped over in his enthusiasm to add more pointless conflict where none was needed.

They could go with Bilbo giving Thranduil the gems, and I do think they will, but I think that they'll have to change the reason. They were only in the palace for one night in movie!verse and there's only so much food that a Hobbit can steal in that time. I'm really curious as to how they're going to build the friendship between Thranduil and Bard - I'm dreading it being some sort of cold, barely tolerant alliance instead of the stronger relationship that they had in the books.

I may have to write it. I may have to write them all...Also, that headcanon is traumatising. Oh my feels.

I'll be working on it fairly soon, I think. I want to get my Genderswap Big Bang out of the way first, along with my Poetry_Fic prompt. But it's something that I should be able to write alongside Painless'verse fairly easily. Thranduil needs all the positive characterisation he can get XD